I was watching some old clips last night. From the early days with Lindros and the Legion of Doom to the playoffs in 97 and the fantastic year 2003-04. Maybe this is only a case of nostalgia, but the feeling I get when I watch those old clips of the Flyers is completely different from the feeling I get when I watch today's Flyers coached by Stevens. If the Flyers of the 90s and the early years of the new millenium was ecstacy, Flyers today is valium.

I've been a Flyers fan since the early 90s. The Flyers franchise has always meant something, it has represented something special. Power. Integrity. Fighting spirit. As a fan, I've been able to feel proud of my FLyers even when the lost. Look at Lindros, LeClair and Renberg. Look at Primeau during the 2004 Stanley Cup playoffs. By all means, look at the chemistry between Gagne and Forsberg. The Flyers of today has nothing! When I watch them I feel "They don't want to win." Or at least, they're not ready to make the effort. This is not a team I can feel proud of.

I don't know if it's as easy as to say it's all Stevens' fault, but as an outsider with no knowledge in what goes on in the locker room, I get the feeling that the Valium Stevens is infecting our team with his appearence. The fighting spirit, the grit, the pride is gone. I don't like what I'm seeing and to be honest, I'm not only worried the Flyers will end up flat this year, I'm worried about the franchise and what is happening with our hockey club right now.

Maybe some of you think I am overreacting, but I can't help the way I feel...

I think the main difference is that Stevens hasn't created and implemented a system for this team. Too many times most or even all of the players are looking just lost out there and they don't even look like they know what they're supposed to do. I don't think they're told how to play.

Another thing that is missing and I think is your main point is that this team has no identity. I don't think it's as big of a problem as having a working system in place, but it just adds to the overall look of this team that everyone looks lost and maybe even a bit uninterested. I think we have easily enough talent and speed on this team to have a successful system in place and maintain an energetic identity, but the coaching staff has failed to create any of that.

Players can go on slumps and that's on them, but when they're constantly underachieving and all slumping at the same time it's the coaches fault for not getting the best out of them.

Tactically i'm a little lost with hockey given my lack of experience. However i agree kappy that this team struggles to imprint itself within games / weeks and months during the season. You hear all the time about the Wild's defense orientated system and the Devils System and even last year how the Pens became more defense orientated in winning the cup. WELL WHAT ARE THEY SAYING ABOUT THE FLYERS SYSTEM. NOTHING

I think if they win a couple games we'll fall in love all over again.

They aren't playing Flyers hockey. One or two players are like Richards but that is it. Unless they get their edge back and Stevens bakes a cake or something, I don't see this changing.

LOL. You're right, though. They play with no heart.

From the 70's to before the lockout, the Flyers played one style of hockey. Therefore, it's the only style of hockey Flyer fans know.

The new NHL all but discourages fighting and physical play. It's becoming more of a skill/finesse league. Unless you just started watching hockey, you're simply not used to this.

To anyone in their 20's or older, the image of the Flyers as the NHL's rough, violent team will continue to live on because that's what we grew up with. Even as the game continues to change and the Flyers begin to assimilate. In terms of image, the Flyers are a lot like the Boston Celtics in that they will likely never shed their past. No matter how much they change or the NBA changes, the first thing many fans will think of is the Celtics' image as a 'white team' back in the 1980's.

+10

i can totally relate to what you are feeling, its te same here....

the last game i saw was the 1-4 loss to the sens, it felt like they didnt care at all or didnt want to play hockey at all.

richards had a good hit on that poor sens dude that got a freebie on goal and lost the puck, but that was about it.

maybe its too many new players on the team and a few too many on the IR list, making it hard to play a good defensive game or something.

its not that i personally require the old school hard hitting flyers to come back, if they want to play the finess game thats fine, just show up and break a sweat on the games, show teh fans that you care and work hard on the puck for at least 60 mins every game.

just my thoughts.

oh, and so far, we havent seen a single game (or at least i havent) where the goalies are ready to play for 60 mins, too many soft goals early in the periods.

I agree whole-heartedly with the TS, with the exception of one thing, and that one thing is Captain Mike Richards.

Richards IS the epitome of Flyers hockey; past, present, and future.

However, I will agree that the Flyers, and to a large degree hockey, has changed since the days of the LoD.

You are dead on. I've been saying that since last year and got crucified repeatedly for it, but it's clear in their play. Inconsistency is a sign of bad coaching. Lack of discipline is a sign of bad coaching. And obviously, the same repeated mistakes over and over and over again is a clear sign of bad coaching.

No, I think it's more serious than that. Unless everything change, which I don't see happening over night, winning a few games will not make me feel better about how the new Flyers play.

The Flyers need a repeat of the Flyers/Sens brawl to wake their ***** up.

We need more of this...

so true /\/\/\ i ment the brawl not the bomb

Maybe we need Hammer, Moose, Big Bird & Hound to speak to the in the locker room. They could explain what being a Flyer means. Never take a shift off & play as if your career depends on this game.

This ^^^^

How can anyone make a realistic or serious case for keeping the coaching staff that we have? We are going to miss the playoffs this year unless something changes.

Or this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbSY9caJLIg

You know why you don't like them? It's not John Stevens. It's not Danny Briere(I know you didn't suggest that but some people have). It's Joffrey Lupul. I've never seen a lazier player in my life. You traded Joni Pitkanen because ......why? What was the reason again? Was he lazy? Well, that's what you got in lupul. The guy's got skill don't get me wrong. But he's a bum. He's got no work ethic. He's streaky. And when he's not hot he's useless.

You get rid of this guy for a dman and resign Mike Knuble. Cam Barker straight up. Holmgren is gonna wait and see what type of season he has and he's gonna trade for him and send Lupul the other way. (just a proposal I don't really know what type of guy Barker is)

I hate lupul .......

/rant

Yeah, I can tell! Honestly, I don't think this is about one player or even three different players or more. I believe, like most of us, that we have a good team that could compete well. I put the blame on the coaching staff for not motivating players, for not energizing them and preparing them enough. We see the same mistakes being made over and over and we hear players saying they feel like they're not prepared when the hit the ice. That's certainly a warning sign and a symptom of some error in the coaching.

But yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Briere either. I had very high expectations when he signed and he's certainly a great player, but maybe some of you guys are right, maybe his style of hockey just doesn't belong here.

At least we're still capable of beating the Islanders. And soon 2 points are up for grabs against the Thrashers...

I've been a fan since the 70's and I honestly hate the idea of this team turning into a "finesse" team, which is the reason I never wanted Briere.
I miss the tough players, I like the "dump and thump", I like hard hitting, and mostly..I love fights.
I know everyone will say its not the 70's anymore and this is how the NHL is today, and to that I say 'TODAYS NHL SUCKS!!!" . Bring back old hockey, put it back in the Spectrum like atmosphere with blue collar workers as season ticket holders getting rowdy in the stands, actually caring about the game and not texting crap on the jumbotron or calling there friends or coworkers on their cellphones . Bring back the organ and get rid of the too loud music, that crap doesn't pump anyone up. Bring back orange SWEATERS and get rid of these transexual skintight RBK jerseys.
I want it to go back to when the saying was "I went to the fight last night and a hockey game broke out" instead of going to the icecapades to watch the ballerinas.

end rant.

kill bettman.

THe Flyers are changing because the league is changing..

We have Bettman to thank for that..

I have only been a fan of the Flyers since '97( i was 7 at the time). But i fell in love with that team, just the way they played and there aggressive style, that made me a hockey fan. The flyers today are nothing like that. Even though we won today, i kinda wish we lost.... We didnt deserve to win, we didnt out play them at all. We havent looked liked a good team once this entire season in my mind..

I know Holmgren made the Carle trade to shake thing up, and cool im all for what makes us better... but this team didnt react to it at all..
Holms needs to do MORE and soon...

This is what many of us grew up with and loved. And what Bettman and the owners are trying to eliminate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOD-kyvL_J8

I agree 100%. I'd love to see the game revert to back how it was from the late 80s to mid 90s, but as long as Bettman is running the show, we're stuck with the "New NHL" unfortunately.

Again, as others have said, it comes down to fundamentally bad coaching. Granted, the league is changing, but that does NOT mean you play neutered hockey.

There are NO consequences for these players. Lupul was demoted to the 4th line for what, 3 shifts? JJ, I love ya to death man, but he didn't "get the message". Some say coaches operate differently...well this coach operates ****-poorly. We NEED a fiery coach to light a fire under these players rears that cannot be estinguished unless they put up or shut up, or get some industrial strength Preparation H.

I'd like to see the game go back to that era as well, but I also much rather watch today's NHL than the clutch & grab game of the late 90s and early 00s.

I too believe Stevens isn't getting the best from his players, but these are grown men who get paid to play this game for a living. And a very good living at that.
The players themselves MUST take responsibility for their less than stellar efforts on the ice. It comes down to their own personal motivation. For whatever reason these men just do not want to achieve anything. They don't want to win. They don't want a championship.
Sitting players may help, but until each and every one of those men pulls their OWN head out of their own a$$, this is the kind of hockey they are going to play.
They have all worked very hard to get to this level of play and now they seem to be content to collect their paycheck and go home.
Maybe just sitting out a period isn't enough. Maybe the answer is a page out of Charlie Manuel's book....SEN

SEND THE NONPERFORMING PLAYERS TO THE MINOR LEAGUE FOR A FEW WEEKS TO WORK ON THEIR FUNDAMENTALS!!!

Let 'em ride a rickety bus to all their games and see how they like it.

"Old Time Hockey"

"Eddie Shore!!"

I'd still rather watch the game as it was in late 90s 00s than today's NHL. At least during that time there was some flow to the game. The constant penalties in the NHL today are ridiculous and kill any kind of flow the game has. What's fun about watching the game when half of it is spent on the PP or PK? You put a stick even near the guys chest and it's an automatic hooking penalty. Give me a break. The "New NHL" is a joke.

The clutch & grab game wasn't even hockey in my eyes. There were all kinds of big pylons and talentless grinders around the league and no room for any kind of speed and skill. Defense became more important than offense. It was just boring to death and I got so sick of it I couldn't even watch anymore. I like it that they're giving more room for talent again and we're closer to the real hockey of the 80s and early 90s now. You have to be a good player again to be able to play in the NHL.

there are too many threads, all pertaining to our frustration and the team's poor play.

-end of the flyers as we know it
-we suck again
-who needs to step up the most
-the real problem

can we stop making new threads. please.

There are a lot of factors that contribute to the fact that this team lacks identity, but maybe one is that we sort of have a revolving door policy. Sure, we can thank Free Agency for that, but I don't think I can remember this many players being moved and this often (I'm talking about the past 5 years or so).

I'm not particularly crazy about Stevens either, but I doubt that he's going anywhere soon. It does not look good for the organization when the avg stay of a coach is 2-3 yrs, so we may have to put up with Stevens for a few years. This mindset, however, is set aside when the team significantly underachieves for a few seasons. I think if we really want Stevens out of here, the Flyers will need to be bad this year unfortunately.

Why don't you make a thread about stop doing these kinds of threads?

Unfortunately I think you're right about this. Stevens isn't going anywhere and the only way to get him out is to continue to underachieve, probably to not make it to the playoffs at all. Maybe we could put up with a crap year if we knew that the good bits were waiting for us, but that's never guaranteed either, so...

I remember we had a Stevens discussion last year in December and all the way to the playoffs on this board. There were a few people who defended Stevens pretty hard, I don't see them here anymore. Ultimately the discussion was the same: Stevens lack passion and it is his fault the Flyers lack passion. I wish someone could tell me that we have another simple answer to our problems since it looks like Stevens will stay in this organization for a while...

To me, the clutch and grab game became a necessity because the NHL expanded beyond the development system's capacity to generate good players. Because there were suddenly so many teams, there were way too many guys in the NHL that had no business being there, so they had to compensate for a watered-down talent pool with a system that allowed mediocre players and hard workers to cancel out more talented ones.

The NHL eventually realized that the players this hurt the most were the ones upon which the league should be marketed, so they changed the system. Now the pendulum's swung too far back the other way in my opinion. The instigator rule is the worst part of this, because it lets dirty players hide behind their teammates in the guise of being star players. Malkin, for example. If this was the old NHL, the first time he slew-footed someone, he'd get run. Lesson learned. He wouldn't do it again. Because he's considered a star player, now he can hide behind Godard and keep pulling deleted behind the play.

The old system of players policing themselves was better.