I have yet to see a topic like this and the daily transactions tend to get scattered and posted in a few different spots. Hopefully, this eliminates that. If there's a better place to put this, though, feel free to do whatever needs to be done with it, mods.

Hockey: Flyers demote two

Link

Flyers bring up two:



http://flyers.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=3...mp;service=page

Boyd Kane? For real?

Downie down again?

Nate Raduns?

All this is driving me crazy

OK Stevens obviously is still learning players faces and names. IM SURE HE MEANT TO BRING UP GIROUX AND DOWNIE

I wouldn't mind giving Giroux a shot. I'm convinced that Downie sucks at this point, though.

I think Downie needs to go to a shallow team where he can get second line minutes and the fans will love his energy. He's not getting a shot in Philly and I highly doubt he will remain here. At this point, the only way he will have a chance to prove himself here would be if the team suffered substantial injuries to all top six forwards. Too bad we didn't grab Stastny or Pavelec instead from that draft... not that you can look at it that way.

EDIT: I just realized the Thrashers used the Flyers pick to draft Pavelec. Go figure.
EDIT TWO: The Oilers used the Flyers pick to draft Syvret too.

I will at the very least consent that it's somewhat Stevens' fault that Downie is doing so poorly, but I don't think he was first round material to begin with. It's like we were expecting Rick Tocchet from him, but instead we get a goon.

I agree that he wasn't first round material. I've always thought he was overrated. I don't think he's bad by any stretch but, in comparison to other recent Flyers' first round picks (Sbisa, JvR, Giroux, Carter, Richards, Pitkanen, Williams), I don't think he stacks up against their talent. OK, he's better than Bellamy, but I just think it's a mistake to expect him to develop like any of those guys.

Downie looked really lost against Edmonton the other night...I know he hasn't had the same opportunity to practice with the Flyers, but in the interview from today after practice, Stevens seemed to think that Downie just needed to see a lot of game time to build his confidence...I hold the opinion that while Downie can star in the AHL, he really needs the FLyers to play to their potential, which is why he did well last season...the other thing to consider is that they may possibly be trying to shop kane and raduns as trade bait in order to deal them...I would rather they be up during the next few weeks. Holmgren has been "window shopping" and not at all happy with the consistency of the defensive effort from his forwards...

with regards to Giroux...it seems weird to me that they have dodged questions about bringing him up...something's just not quite right and it seem's to me that they are holding back....

Makes sense about Kane and Raduns. I can't picture another reason why Kane would be up, anyway.

yeah, he was up last season for a bit and I wasn't super impressed...same thing this preseason in the games that I saw...

What makes you think he sucks? He's only 21 years old with only around a half of season worth of NHL experience. Not everyone carves out a niche in the NHL right away. Look at Sean Avery. He bounced around the NHL when he was Downie's age as well. He didn't become a full time NHL player until he was 23.


The problem with trading him is that unless he is packaged in some deal I don't see them getting fair value for him and it could end up being Patrick Sharp part 2.



He was picked with the 29th pick. I thought it was an astute pick. He's also not just a goon. He is an agitator, but he has skill. He hasn't done a whole lot at the NHL level yet, but even now you can see his play along the boards is really strong especially considering he is a small guy.


Downie doesn't have much as skill as them, but I don't think that makes Downie a poor pick. You can't really compare him to them because some of them were high picks while Downie was taken later in the first than any of them. JVR + Pitkanen were top 5 picks while Carter was just outside of the top 10. Richards was a later pick in the first, but he was taken in one of the deepest drafts in NHL history. Sbisa was taken in the second half of the first, but he was taken in one of the deepest drafts for defenseman.

Downie just needs time to develop and people will see why he was a good pick. It wasn't that long ago when people were screaming for Carter to be traded and were saying Richards would be nothing more than a third liner. Haven't we learned to give our young players a chance?

Raduns and Kane were most likely brought up to give them enough players to practice yeasterday, I would not be surprised to see them sent back down today so they could go on the Phantoms. Right now sending Downie and Ross down is a good move for the week. The Phantoms have 4 games in 5 days so they will get a ton of playing time. The Phantoms are going to be on a road trip up in the New Hampshire & Mass. area so if they need an extra body on Thursday night in Ottawa they can get one there fairly easily.

I think my post was poorly worded. I don't think Downie is bad and I have no issue with him as a player. The general perception I've gotten is that, because he was a first round pick, many people expect him to turn into a top notch star. I don't think he's a top tier first round pick and I just don't foresee that happening -- but Avery might be a good comparison. So, I think you might be elaborating the point I never clearly made here: It's not fair to expect the same sort of development out of him as we might out of those other picks. I think I go too far sometimes to counter overzealous expectations.

You're absolutely right in saying that he needs time to develop, like any young player. I completely agree with that. I just don't see it happening here. There's just not enough room at the NHL level. He's not getting the playing time he deserves and I think that bouncing around between the AHL and NHL might slow down his progress. While Downie's trade value may not be at it's peak right now, I think he is still good trade bait because I think a lot of teams would be very anxious to buy low on someone like him. I just hope the Flyers don't do to him what the Capitals were accused of doing to Eminger.

Here is how I read this whole situation: The Flyers are not looking for more young offensive talent. They're giving Giroux and JvR the proper time to develop and those two are expected to walk right onto the team once they are ready (although Giroux hasn't turned out to be what they thought yet.) Any other forward in the system will be used as cheap call-ups for the next few years. Downie does not fit into the role of a Flyer and he might not fit the organization's purpose as a Phantom for very long. We've seen decent offensive prospects traded away in the last year or two because the Flyers won't have much of a use for them. Outside of Asham taking up a roster spot, the lineup is pretty set.

The question of "Who should be traded in exchange for a defenseman or goalie?" often arises. To me, Downie is the clear choice (not the only choice, though.) He isn't being given the opportunity to make an impact with the big club and he'll be good trade bait. The organization hasn't done much to showcase his talent but they have at least minimized his reputation as an erratic hothead. Taking him out of the category of Hollweg, Simon, etc. might do wonders for his trade value.

I never knew why people held Downie at such a high regard. Last year, we had threads on this board that almost had me convinced that Downie could actually walk on water. I've always thought that he was way overrated and while you can make the argument that he didn't have the time to show off his skills, i can say that a lot of rookies came into the NHL firing on all cylinders.

But, if we choose to trade Downie, shouldn't Stevens be showcasing him by actually playing him in games? If he's such an agitator with skill, why not increase his value by showing it off, hence gaining more in return.

I don't know... a lot of things the Flyers have done thi syear are confusing me.

I agree, I think with proper training Downie can be another Upshall...He is a good agitator and someone that can get under their opponents skin...I do think it's a very good idea to let him be a star on the phantoms roster for the time being...until the flyers start utilizing their potential...he will get his chance again, but it seems like he is getting brought up at the last minute and with him sitting a couple of games because of the knee sprain...he hasn't gotten a solid chance to build chemistry...I think it's worthwhile to keep him...

I don't think that we can rule out the possibility of him being a lifetime Phantom player.

I don't think you can rule out that possibility for any of them...

Ok, I understand what you are saying. I don't think anyone expects Downie to be a star. He was an immediate fan favorite, but I think that has more to do with his style of play which Philadelphia fans love. I agree he is not a top tier first round pick, but that's why he was taken with the 29th pick. That talent level severely drops off by pick 29. The odds of someone making it in the NHL that were picked at that spot are very slim. So the fact that the Flyers drafted someone who will be a full time NHLer (in my opinion) is a very good pick. I think we get spoiled with late picks like Giroux and Richards, but that is more of a testiment to the Flyers scounting department and not the quality of player that is typically available late in the first. Teams drafting that low are more likely to end up with a player that busts than the quality of talent that the Flyers have been able to pick out.

I don't see why he can't get time to develop here. He can get development time on the Phantoms so there is absolutely no reason to trade him right now. You're right teams might be anxious to buy low on him, but that doesn't benefit the Flyers if they are buying low on him. Which is why I fear it would be another Sharp trade. At the very least the Flyers should let him tear it up for the Phantoms for a while before trading him. Trading him right now would be a huge mistake unless he would be a part of a package deal.

I don't see how Downie doesn't fit the role of a Flyer or Phantom. That doesn't make sense to me. The prospects that were traded away don't have the offensive upside of Downie. He is a much better prospect so just because they dealt them doesn't mean they are going to rush to deal Downie.

I am not sure I agree if the organization has done much to minimize the perception of him being a hothead. The fact that Stevens benches him after each mistake he makes doesn't send that message. Not only hasn't the organization done much showcase his talent, their handling of him has likely hurt his value at the current moment.


Like I said above, Downie was a fan favorite because Flyers fans love his style of play. For those of us who follow prospects and got to see him play in the past know that he is the type of player that would do anything to win. He was also a clutch player that was often the difference maker in big games. You are right there are rookies that have come into the NHL firing on all cylinders, but many don't. Many players need time to adjust and to develop. As I said Sean Avery was in Downie's same position at his age. Downie has more skill than Avery so I think he will be fine.


No, you can't rule that out with any prospect but there is no reason to believe that at this point. If he was 27 I'd be likely to agree, but he's 21 and has less than a season's worth of games as a pro (AHL + NHL combined).

My posts are just filled with fail today, aren't they?

By "fit the role" of a Flyer, I mean "make the cut." In other words, I think the Flyers see him as expendable because, essentially, 10 of their 12 everyday forwards have carved out their roles and Metro could easily be considered the 11th. Asham doesn't serve any purpose, as far as I'm concerned, but keeping Downie as a 4th line winger or center doesn't do much for anyone. So, he plays on the Phantoms where he can develop but it will only be so long before he's played himself out of an AHL role but there will still be no place on the NHL club for him. So, in my mind, again, this ends in a trade one way or another. His direct competition is Upshall but Upshall has played so well from the end of last season on that I think it'd be difficult for Downie to beat him out.

Downie is better than the prospects we've traded away. I wasn't trying to compare him to them in that sense. I just mean that I think the Flyers are content with the offense they have and it'll be difficult to crack the lineup, shy of being a 4th line center or right winger.

I think Downie's reputation as a hothead has definitely died. From the insider's perspective of a Flyers' fan, we see him get benched and bounced between leagues. So, that makes us suspicious. From an outsider's perspective, though, people aren't seeing Downie make headlines for doing crazy things. If anything, maybe he's even gained some empathy from the recent AHL fight where he got bitten. Things are much quieter on that front and no news is good news, sometimes.

If the Flyers do plan on trading him, I agree that they are hurting his trade value by not showcasing his talent.

Right now Upshall may be a better player, but if Downie spends the next year or two developing his game in the AHL it may reach a point where the team thinks that they can play the same role, it is Upshall who will be traded not Downie. He woud be making more money at the time and would be closer to free agency. With the way the league is set up now, you cannot afford to give up on a player after just a few games. You have to give them time to develop and if they do, they are then able to fill a spot in your lineup at a lower cost.

Upshall will be a RFA after this season. Downie will be a RFA after next season. I think that Upshall is around the level of play that he'll be at through the height of his career and I don't anticipate his salary would go up too much. Downie would have to prove himself during this season to beat Upshall out for a spot and I guess I'm not as optimistic that will happen. I'm not giving up on Downie. I just don't think there is a clear path for him to remain on the Flyers. Upshall and Carter have great chemistry and Upshall fills a unique role on this team. You know what you're getting with him.

I'm uncertain of many things with Downie. Will he develop into the player some people think he'll be come? If he does, will he still be affordable? Do you trade a sure thing in Upshall for a question mark in Downie? If you leave a lot of doubt in Downie's mind and bench him and bounce him between leagues, will he even want to re-sign with the Flyers? Even if that doesn't bother him, why would he want to re-sign with a team where he'd be limited to mainly third line minutes (assuming he beats out Upshall)? If I was Steve Downie, I'm not so sure I would want to remain in Philly anyway.

The one problem with Downie is that, once he receives a penalty Stevens benches him for the rest of the game. So in my mind it is pretty much Stevens fault for Downie not getting any minutes. Why is he only singling out Downie in this way is my question.

No, your posts are well-thought out. I'm just a little slow sometimes so you need to spell things out for me.

I understand what you're saying, but I have to respectfully disagree. It's too early to say there is no place for him on the team. I wouldn't say Nodl's spot is locked up because he is a young player with little pro experience and we have absolutely no clue how he will fare the rest of the season. We also don't know what is going to happen in terms of injuries. A trade could also free up a spot for him. Even if there isn't a spot for him this season, he certainly should be competing for a spot next season. If a good offer comes along then yeah it makes sense to trade him, but it's extremely short-sighted to write him off on this team yet. There is no rush to trade him.

Well I don't know if his reputation as a hothead has died if the GM's are paying attention to his performance in the AHL. He is racking up the PIMs and I imagine he will continue because the play is a lot chippier down there and I'm sure players are trying to get under his skin as much as they can.

trade Kane Raduns and Downie for Bouwmeester

Despite my arguing otherwise, I have to say I agree with you. I checked my math and realized I double counted Metro. Whoops. So, I'm wrong. Nodl's spot definitely isn't a given yet. Whoops. Math really does me in sometimes. Since I was considering Downie as the most viable trade option, I didn't count on the possibility of trading someone else opening up a spot for him but, since I did bad some bad math, a trade of another forward would certainly open up a spot for Downie, assuming the organization would give it to him (which I think they should.)

If Homer could pull that off, it would dwarf the awesomeness of the Zhitnik for Coburn trade and I'd just about give him a free pass for life.

no i think you mean Jared Ross and Downie
Giroux isnt confidently stable yet

Recent Transactions
November 8 - Flyers recalled forward Josh Gratton from the Phantoms.

Umm, does this mean Cote is out with that injury, or are they playing him in place of Powe? If he's taking Powe's place, is her versatile; can he play center?

I think it's because Cote isn't playing because of an injury. Now that Briere is back, I think that Metro will be back on the 4th line with gratton and Asham, or Cote. We just have to see if Nodl is playing tonight, and then that will determine what the lines are. If Nodl isn't playing(injury), The 4th line will most likely be Cote Metro Gratton, moving Asham up to the 3rd line.

I just read through some articles, and Nodl will be back in the lineup. It doesn't say much about Cote, but I'm assuming that he's not playing because Gratton was brought up, unless he is a game time decision.

Cote hurt?

They said Cote has an upper body injury. I think that hit he took from Leblond might've given him a concussion.

Bring up Josh Gratton? Good thing Homer made that trade, if Cote is going to be out with an injury we need someone like Gratton to come in.

isnt that why we signed Asham?? i thought that was his role

Is Gratton even playing if Nodl is playing?

Schaise. I didnt even know, or I didnt even care I guess. Well, good to have the scapegoat back. Welcome back Danny

Darn. Close to match. Evening here. Pick up some whatever girls. Invite them to flyer game. 3-4 sick-stupid rebounds from Nitty (as always), and I will be great hony ;D

Good game folks

From the always reliable *ahem* Eklund...
Dwayne Roloson to NJ (e3) Flyers and Shanny Close?

I could see both Roloson and Shanahan go to NJ.

The Flyers certainly can't fit Shanny under the cap now.

I just got that same feeling...



yup...

Both would help them right now. Both would also be prime trading material at the deadline. Isn't that when Brodeur comes back?

Among the topics of note were Flyers wingers Arron Asham and Joffrey Lupul skating on different lines. Asham was with Mike Richards and Scott Hartnell, while Lupul skated with Glen Metropolit and Josh Gratton.

As an oiler fan I just don't see anyone wanting Dwayne Roloson, the guy is clearly washed up IMO. I don't see it happening. Hopefully he retires an oiler and stays with the organization in some capacity.

This is good news. The way Lupul has been playing isn't anywhere near what should be expected of him, especially after signing that big extension. Let him spend some time on the 4th line (more than just a few shifts during a 1 game span) to find his game, and hopefully he'll clue in on just what is exected of him.... If not, I forsee a change in venue for him, to either the press box, or another team

I second that, Lupul has been **** poor.