From the Faceoff Factor:

When the Philadelphia Flyers began their overhaul at the trade deadline two seasons ago, it was clear the team had rebuilding in mind.

What wasn’t clear at that time was that the rebuilding process would last months, not years.

And that’s where the Flyers went wrong.

Their late season acquisitions of Braydon Coburn and Scottie Upshall looked great. Adding Martin Biron to the mix in goal wasn’t a bad idea either.

But what they did in the summer could haunt them for years.

They traded for, then signed impending free agents Kimmo Timonen and Scott Hartnell to six-year contracts. Timonen’s contract is worth $37.8 million ($6.3 million cap hit) and Hartnell’s is worth $25.2 million ($4.2 million cap hit).

For the record, Timonen’s deal has looked to be a solid decision, as he’s the anchor of the blueline and has played All-Star caliber hockey since his arrival.

Hartnell’s deal, however, is a joke. At $4.2 million, the Flyers paid nearly $1 million for every 10 points scored last season, though his physical presence was specular — even if it put the Flyers a man down quite often.

Then came the trade for Jason Smith and Joffrey Lupul. Smith looked to be the stoic veteran to lead the team, but ended up hurting them with poor positional play. He departed in free agency this summer. Lupul looked okay, registering 46 points, but that wasn’t nearly what was expected of the dynamic young forward.

And then there is the whammy: Danny Briere, a power play specialist softie, who is completely opposite of everything the Flyers stand for. He signed an eight-year deal worth $52 million ($6.5 million cap hit).

Also on the roster were talented youngsters Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, and R.J. Umberger, as well as veterans Mike Knuble and Derian Hatcher.

The lineup looked great on paper and finished the season with 95 points and ultimately went to the Eastern Conference Finals — a huge task, considering their league-worst 56 points the year before.

But their problems weren’t so much in last year’s roster, but this year’s roster and rosters for years to come.

By handicapping themselves with multiple big contracts for risky players, the Flyers have put themselves in a tough position under the cap.

The first consequence of the poor management led general manager Paul Holmgren to trade R.J. Umberger in the offseason to make room for some defensive upgrades.

And the upgrades made? Ossi Vaananen and Steve Eminger. Vaananen couldn’t find a suitor in the 2007-08 season, so he played overseas. Eminger couldn’t outplay his teammates on a relatively weak Washington Capitals blueline in 2007-08, so he watched from the press box on most nights.

Now, with defensemen Ryan Parent and Randy Jones sidelined until the new year at the earliest, the Flyers defensive depth — which already was quite bad — looks even worse.

Fans are calling for help, some even suggesting signing Mats Sundin (how does that help the team’s defensive woes?).

But what is handicapping the Flyers is their recklessness in handing out big contracts.

According to Cap Central, the Flyers have six players making more than $4 million this season, and next season they’ll have another. All seven of those players are locked in until 2010-11, and five of them will remain under contract until 2012-13.

So, to break that down, the Flyers currently have $33.03 million tied up in six players. Next season, they’ll pay $37.28 million to seven players. In 2011-12 and 2012-13, the Flyers will spend $27.03 on five players. And they’ll still have at least one big contract on the hook through 2015-16.

Big contracts in some cases aren’t bad. In fact, in some cases — Timonen and Richards, for example — they’re quite good. In Timonen and Richards, they have their star defenseman and team captain locked in long-term.

But, in other cases, they have risky players signed for big bucks. Hartnell at $4.2 million per year, Lupul (beginning next season) at $4.25 million per year, and Briere at $6.25 per year for the next seven years (including this year) just don’t help the team.

Where is the money to be spent on defense? How will they improve if they have more than half of their payroll tied up in less than one third of their roster?

Maybe they’ll make some trades. But who would be willing to take some of the large contracts they’ve issued to mediocre players?

Maybe a player or two will retire. But, wait, none of the big-money players listed above is nearing retirement, and those close to retirement (Hatcher at $3.5 million, Mike Rathje at $3.5 million) aren’t even counted in the team’s salary structure, which currently sits just $1,638,333 below the salary cap — even with several players on long-term injured reserves.

Rebuilding isn’t something that can or should be done in a one-year span. Teams that do it right — Pittsburgh, Los Angeles and Chicago, to name a few — let the process work out itself.

Some may say these teams purposefully stunk for years to stockpile high draft picks, but the fact is, these teams built for the long haul, with the entire picture in mind.

Unfortunately for Flyers fans — and for those who enjoy good competition when their team plays the Flyers — the 0-3-3 start appears to be more of a forecast for the future than a sign of a temporary slump.

FG, you're going to drive me to drink....

I hate seeing all this stuff.

Watch well turn it around. If i recall we went on a ten game losing streak last year.

I said no. Our team is great on paper. The effort just isn't there.

I voted yes, Homer doesn't have any idea on how to manage the cap and we may suffer for years to come because of it.
The article is right..Briere was the whammy, he is not Flyers material, he's small and soft.
Hartnell is grossly overpaid.
For what Lupul is turning into, I'd rather have Pitkanen right now
Vaananen and Emminger
Alberts
Metropolit and Asham...are you kidding me ?
Thanks a lot Clarkie jr.

I think the focus here is the future. Consider the fact that at the end of this season both Nitty and Marty are UFA's, and we have no viable options in the pipeline. The D is too thin and Braydon will be hitting the market soon. I also think the large increases in Cap that we've witnessed over the last three years is about to slow. We are potentially in some trouble.

I've been quietly beating this drum for a year now. He would have been waiting off waiting for Carter and Richards to develop instead of signing a high priced free agent in Briere. Now we have 3 first line centers making big bucks and no money to upgrade the areas that need to be upgraded. They need to move a large contract (not Carter) to spread out the money. Trading prospects and picks is only going to compound the problem.


You are spot on. Not only will the increases slow, but the cap may decrease in the future with our economic problems. The Flyers will be the team that is hit the hardest.

They would have a lot more to fix if he didn't do that.

He didn't hurt our future if anything it is better now.

Care to explain this ?

Don't feel like writing to much now but they have less to fix right now compared to if they took the long road of rebuilding.

Briere, Timonen, and Hartnell make a lot but when your team sucks that much you have to spend cash to get good free agents. Without Kimmo does Coburn get as good as he did? Without Briere does Richards develop as well as he did considering he would have been in an entirely different role. Would Gagne still be a Flyer? Umberger would have never gotten a chance to get as high a value as he did. Our defense would be just as weak and we would be relying on players like Giroux who have shown they aren't yet ready for the NHL.

Right now they have less to fix then they would have. We aren't really even stuck with Briere ether he had a good season and he was putting up good numbers this year, there are teams that would trade for him if we put him out there.

Briere has a No Movement Contract.

I know but if the team is struggling and the team voices they want to move him I don't see why he would object to being traded to a better team at the deadline. Plus his deal is front loaded down the road he can be threatened with a buyout if needed.

I don't think the Flyers should move him but we aren't stuck with him.

All the announcers make us sound good, yet we can't win a game. I didn't vote, but i feel like Homer didn't make a mistake. He wanted a team to come out and be good, and that what he did.

We lost players like Hatcher, Smith, Kappy, Thor, Dowd, Umberger, but nothing to actually damage our offense (besides Umberger). Offense isn't the problem. Defense is the problem, which makes our goalies the problems. Also i feel like the coaching staff is the problem too. Fix those errors and Flyers should start looking better.

Just think about, two years ago in our worst season, even then we had 1 win, 7 games in.

I was logging on between periods to catch some happy news. . . now i have no f'en clue!

I said yes, because I think most of the moves Homer has made have been rushed rather than well thought out.

I bet none of this would've been brought up if we didn't start so slow.

Ok, I have a lot to say about this article...


I disagree. I think it's hurting the team this year but I don't think it will hurt in the long run. If we had a Clarke-era team made of vets past their prime and all the rookies were traded away or struggling to find playing time, I'd think we'd be screwed for the future.


Just okay? That's ridiculous. He had 46 points in 56 games. That's way more than okay, especially considering who we gave away for Lupul and Smith.


It was a necessary evil. I'd rather still have Umberger than have Hartnell but, as it was said, we didn't get Hartnell for what he could currently do. We got him for what he should be able to do in the future. Let's hope that turns out to be true. By the way, has anyone seen Umberger's stats? He's got 2 points and is a -2 playing between Nash and Huselius. If he did that in Philly, we'd be calling for him to be traded. Case and point, Lupul has the same stats and he started the season on the third line and people want him out of Philly.


Eminger was a crappy move. I like Vaananen. There are plenty of players playing abroad that are NHL caliber. Just because Vaananen didn't play last year, it doesn't mean he's not good. This article is stupid. It makes some okay points but a lot of it is uninformed filler.


And this is is Homer's fault how?


This is clearly Homer's weakness but I have to think it's from a lack of experience and he will get better with it. I'm sorry, but there is no way Ed Snider would've let Homer sit back last year and not make a lot of the moves he made. He may have been forced to hand out some big paydays (ie. Briere) in order to acquire some players but he has definitely made some bad deals too (Hartnell, Jones, etc.)


Well, this article already points out how much money Timonen is getting paid. So, there's some of it. Coburn deserves more but this article neglects to mention that Homer re-signed him for a steal. Where's the credit for that? From there, you've got Sbisa and Parent who should be incredibly solid #3 and #4 men by the end of the year. That leaves some question marks about the third pairing and I think Vaananen and Jones is a pretty good third pairing.


"Teams that do it right" Hahahahahahahaha. What a crock. Those teams sucked forever. Is that doing it right? Now way anyone in Philly would ever allow that. The fans are ready to kill this team for losing six games. Imagine six losing seasons. There would be riots in the streets. Has this author ever talked to a Flyers fan?


For the record, the author writes primarily about the Pens.

I am curious as to how you said Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, and Chicago have done it right. Kings and Blackhawks haven't made the playoffs since when? Penguins have not won a cup since rebuilding and now they have no farm system and serious lack of depth with bigger contracts then us

I only read a little bit, but this makes no sense. When they signed him, he led the league in 5 on 5 points that season.

No, he didn't.

All these big moves, are mistakes and rush.. Noone is worth that amount of dollars..Although kimmo is pretty close

Get Tollefsen from Blue jackets, hes cheap and a Flyer by heart Doesnt skate to well , but with the current defense that should not be a problem At least he has his heart in the game, unlike most of the defense. With tollefsen, Cote will not be needed. We can build more speed and threat on the 4th line.. Or keep Cote as a threat in addition to Tollefsen.


This is what the defense need :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBxr-9QV2zs

I think it is funny what a small losing streak does to the public opinion of Homer. Last year he was a genius. Now he is stupid for what he did. We almost won the cup last year, and if it wasn't for the injuries we would have won it. So don't all of the sudden bail on Homer.

Timonen- best pickup in recent memory for the Flyers

Hartnell- still young, potential, a better version of Knuble who will be gone after this year if not earlier. He puts up decent point totals.

Upshall- definition of what a flyer is.

Richards- worth every penny to keep him here long term

Briere- i can't believe people hate this guy. Has a big heart for a small guy. Great leader, CLUTCH performer, great on PP. One bad stretch of games last year should not define him.

Lupul- another guy who doesn't get the credit from the fans. If he doesn't get hurt by his own teammate last season he could have been around 65-70 pts. And he is starting to pick up his scoring again this year. He could be a 40-50 goal scorer. He has a tremendous amount of potential.

The only thing Homer has done wrong was overpaying for Jones and not locking up Coburn. And keeping Stevens. Carter was paid a little to much, but he is playing really well this year.

Hatcher will be coming of the books soon.

And we have guys like Downie and Giroux that have enourmous potential and could fill the void if we need to trade one of these players for cap space or a dman.
Nodl and Sbisa are also looking like they will be good NHL players.

We have so many players on offense that we can make a trade to free up space, or let one of them go. Or make a trade for a dman. And we have the players in the AHL or elsewhere to fill the void.

The sky is not falling in my opinion. As long as we do not waste money on Biron to bring him back. You have to keep the younger Nitty and let Biron walk. Unless he turns into god in net, which doesn't seem like it will happen.

Just don't turn your back on your team because they started out 0-3-3 against 5 great teams. Calling him a genius for getting us to the ECF, and then pushing him under the bus a few months later is a bit hypocritical.

Timmonen, Coburn yes.
Briere...Its not him, he just does not fit in. 1 Briere on each line, that would be a different game, but still, it wouldnot be Flyers....
Upshall, not really a flyer but i dig him. He gives speed to this team, which they need. His backcheking is horrible....tough...
Homer....Was never a genious... but the final run saved his and Stevens arse..Although, to be frankly honest, if it was not for Price having his worst games the whole season, the canadiens would have taken us in 5


You think it is funny..............
I think you just dont get it. Was a problem last year and that is why people this year are ******. We forgave them due to the last run, but we all knew inside, that the Canadiens was a better team.

If the best team always wins, why play the ******* game? Glad to see you have your team's back. Do people fail to see that this team is young as anything and they made it to the ECF. They have rebuilt in a fast way. The Penguins have a similar cap dilemma in their future. As do a lot of teams. If you don't like the players that are here and think the Canadiens are better, then why don't you go root for them.

Pens same problem ... YES
As do a lot of teams .... NO... look at the Coyotes. . genirous. Even the kings are heading down the coyote road this year.... ups.. I forgot to mention the Oilers...Their kidline has been simply great !!!
Canadiens...Im not gonna vote for a team i Dont like, but fairly I can say they deserved it YES... But apart from that, I am old enough to have discovered this world is not about fairness, that said...Darn glad we beat them...But agin, deserved ??? not really

Edmonton Oilers..$43.9 million committed to 17 players. (http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/pgStory?contentId=8706996#sport=NHL&photo=8705006). In fact, that site lists 10 teams in cap ****.

Coyotes and Kings have been consistently bad, that they are due for a rise. But when their players start to demand money, they will get into cap trouble down the road. It happens to every team. The Flyers have always found a way to be competitive and in the playoffs. Even under that idiot Clarke. Don't lose faith in the Flyers. They always find a way to remain competitive.

They have rebuilt in a fast way. The Penguins have a similar cap dilemma in their future. As do a lot of teams. If you don't like the players that are here and think the Canadiens are better, then why don't you go root for them.
[/quote]

Sorry that i did not want to include all your post...

Pens yes. They have the same cap problem. AND believe me it will smack them in thier arses.

If i think canadiens were better, you , im not gonna root for them by that. ! just silly...

Caps problems, some teams seems to handle this very well... Well, #1 is the Red Wings, they get a Zeta who plays at 1/4 of dannys (last season) salary..........Do I need to say more............

This year, kings-oilers-coyotes...Awesome.... Need to say more.............

lol. Independet of reading you post, we thouight of the same 3 teams

You just seem to have no faith that the Flyers can deal with a cap dilemma. We have a lot of young players that are coming up through our system and that are on the team already. We can make trades to fix this problem. Do you expect us to have the same team for 10 yrs? And Danny is worth every dollar. I am done arguing this point anyway. It is stupid how nobody supports Briere. 7 pts in 6 games and we overpaid for him. How about we overpaid for Gagne because he is always hurt. I mean that is just stupid in my opinion. $ issues happen to every team. And the Flyers will find a way to deal with it.

And as to your kings-oilers-coyotes point. One it is early in the season. Two, with the exception of the Oilers, these teams have been in the basement of their conferences. They may be under the cap, but have they won anything more than the Flyers have. Would you rather have had the flyers commit to a full rebuild and have a horrible season and build through the draft than turn it around and go to the ECF.

Anyway, idk. It is this season and all we should care about is winning this year. Leave it to them to figure out the cap mess, which they will.

Obviously we have a clash of opinions, so I will let you go with yours and I will keep mine. End of story.

Get real. You could put a penguin (and i mean real penguin) out there. Give the pen a stick and put him front of the goal...Would have made same numbers, give same icetime, as Danny...

cmon. #ake up

I voted no. Cap problems are the reality in the NHL now, every team will have its troubles and I really don't think we are in any significant hole.

How can you state that. This horribe defense is all about the cap ????

So a penguin can put up 31G and 41A. I mean I thought you were somewhat intelligent, but now you just threw away all your credibility. So a penguin kicked our *** when he played in Buffalo and knocked us out of the playoffs. And did you watch the Flyers and Caps series? Take Briere out and we probably lose that series and we don't even get a chance to play your Canadiens.

Very good read. Agree 100%

thank you. at least I have found one true Flyer fan tonight.

I don't necessarily agree, but I think I said that cap problems are part of the NHL, not that the Flyers don't have any cap problems. The question is if Holmgren mortgaged the future by going for it all last season, and to that question I vote "no."

After tonight's game I think this is the start of a BIG winning streak!! I think we can rattle off 6 more in a row (at least). Biron suddenly looked like Biron in last year's playoffs in periods 2 and 3. Our defense really stepped up tonight. The forwards are scoring goals like crazy!

I know, I know, I know...Where was this all season phantomflyer??? The optimism instead of the pessimism? Well I thought they way were losing was unacceptable and I have been waiting for a performance like this. I was very pessimistic because I just felt that an 06-07 redux was going to happen. Tonight they showed their mettle and FINISHED THE GAME!!!

We are about to take off---The rest of the NHL beware...Here we come!!!

LETS GO FLYERS!!!

Again.

Get real. I know 10 players in swedens elitserie who can do the same. Do I need to point out that Fabian Brunnstrøm did a hattrick in his first nhl game.

Cmon. Wake up. You guys believe hockey is only played in Canada and USA

Forgot to mention but AND:

They will do it for under $1 mill pr yr the next 3 seasons if signed.


Lol. Compare Skrøder from MODO vs out Knuble. lol. Skrøder is a BOMB. Strong as deleted, noone want to take him. Guess even Laraques would have doubted. He puts in a lot. BUT he is too old. Well, anyway he is a lot better than knuble. And that was one for Knuble. I have 5 for Briere too.

The Flyers Syndrom:

Skrøder cant be anygood coz he will play for less than 1 mill pr year...neh
Pay him 10 times more and he will be 10 times better........
The Holmgren syndrom...To stupid. Jagr a canadian ? Ovek a canadian ? Kovy a candaian ? Zetta a canadian ?.

Hockey is not only played in the american continent, which Flyers have yet to really understand. Paying sh.it dollars for a Briere, when there is probably a 100 better players in europe...Jesus wake up

Read thru your whole post. And I disagree with everything..

Dont get a clear point of what your stating , BUT , my personal opinion..

McT is a coach who allows (even encourgae) the young player to play.

Opposite of Stevens. Stevens look at how much they earn, before making a decision. Not how welll they play

Heading down this direction, Flyers gonna be a deletedteam the nex 10 years

Fire Stevens..Despite his comfortable personality.. A chair is a chair


Just the fact that not offering Thor a one way contract. I mean.. how dumb can you get...Here is a natural Flyer only wants to earn a small salary.... Stevens has said his opinions in this case, as many others. Hes lost.

Btw....Thoresen is gonna go to the Ducks or redwings next season. Gonna be given a lot of icetime and produce. Maybe Coyotes gretzky will step in , instead of a major team...... Fire Stevens


Anyway, on line with a robust forward as Jokinen, would have at leat made me forge about dollrs

Is it just me or does this sound weird to you..Before tonight's game I've checked this threads' voteresults,it was 6 for Yes and about 4 or 5 for NO(not sure)..Now it's 6 and 22.Did the first win really effected that much on the people?Guess so.If we'd lose,it would be the other way around.

I am sure the blogger would have never mentioned it, but I have brought up some of these points last season when they were winning.


I didn't say they did it right. The blogger said it.

It did !!!

Flyers dont see talent if they have one put in their mouth !

1 vic over e semi-motivated devils team, gonna make them happy !

Its just the way it is...unf.

Trade talent and let us be sticked with Danny, Kimmo and Mike..

F.uck talents is wasted anyway. We can beat the rest of teams with 4 (Carter) players anyway !!!!

Yeah !!!

Go Stevens !!

I agree they we aren't in a significant hole because unlike the blogger I think the Flyers can still be competitive. I also agree cap problems are the reality, but how many teams find themselves experiencing these issues so quickly after handing out contracts? That's what is concerning because it appears that Holmgren didn't plan for the future when he handed out these contracts. He left himself with little room to maneuver after handing them out. The Rangers went on a similar spending spree, but they were able to do it because they had contracts coming off the books a year later so it gave them room to maneuver and add pieces. The Flyers, on the other hand, were forced to deal Umberger, had to let their captain walk, had to overpay for Eminger, had to deal a 2nd round pick to get Gauthier on a NHL roster, and had to wait until the last minute possible to sign Carter when undoubetly they ended up paying him more than they would have liked. The Flyers desperately needed a top 4 defenseman, but they could only afford to sign marginal players.

So now to get a top four defenseman one of our pricey forwards is going to have to be dealt simply so we can afford an impact dman which makes our depth at forward weaker. They also might have to trade picks and prospects as well which again weakens the depth. They might have to deal someone we'd rather not move like Carter, JVR, or Giroux simply because these are the most attractive commodities besides the untouchable Richards.

It's all not the end of the world mind you, but it was cap mismanagement because little foresight went into it, IMO.

wake up call...I mean

Look at the deleteding redwings. Who are they ???
Sweden national team plud a majpr iimptort from russia. And a minro improt from Finland and Slovakia

Wake up...

Ok putting it straight.

Sweden won NHL and Stanley last season. Simple as that. Anyway, Sweden wins what they wish to win...

You guys "briere, fr. canadian, Gags, fr. canadian"

Time to wake up ?

Are you saying we need to trade for a Swede?

Yes,I think he means exactly that.
Detroit has 11 Europeans in their squad,5 of them are swedish,also 2 slovakian.
So he has the point in here..For some reason swedish players fit in there extremelly well.

They just do a really great job at drafting underrated Swedes and a great job at developing them. Although it is interesting to note they passed up on Markstrom for McCollum last year and Markstrom has to be the best goalie in Sweden right now.