Let me start off by making this statement. This thread is not supporting firing Stevens at this time, I just have a few questions for the members on this board.

I'd like some of the anti-tortarella crowd on here to try to convice me as to why exactly if, hypothetically, Stevens were to be fired if this team doesnt turn things around, they would rather have Nolan than Tortarella.

To me, what stands out the most is that you have Nolan - who got fired for taking the Islanders NOWHERE, and you have Torts - who has won a Stanley Cup. I need someone to make a seriously convincing argument as to why you'd take Nolan over a guy who has a stanley cup ring. I just doesnt make sense to me. If it were to happen, with Torts, I would hope that Homer would pull Torts aside and say something like "hey, listen, I'm not going to get in the way of you coaching, but if I hear of some serious complaints from my guys about you, you're going to be the first one to go".

Again, I think its WAAAAY too early to consider canning John Stevens (A.K.A. Master Chief Chef) right now. He definetly deserves a little leeway here, but if this team doesn't win at least one of the next 3 games, and doesnt go on a little winnng streak afterwards, I think it would be something worth considering. Heck, maybe they dont even have to win the games, but if they continue to play like they did against Colorado.......well.......

From what i understand...Nolan has issues... he got fired from the Sabres for sleeping with Dominik Haseks wife...is the word on the street, I actually went to school with Nolan's son Brandon... so he is a local...and that is the word...whether its true or not, I have no idea...

Also why he was black listed for so long... i mean, it makes sense, why coach of the year...and then no job for many years... you dont do that sort of thing... if the rumors are true...

I could be wrong...but I been told that by mulitple sources... not just one...

And i honestly think...this team wont get a win till the Atlanta game, playing the way they are...maybe they can squeeze one from New Jeresey...but sharks?...yeah...good luck

It would be nice...but i dont think they can beat arguably the best or second best team in the league

Nolan... good guy and should not have been fired by the Islanders, but what has he really accomplished int he NHL? Who cares if someone wins a championship in the AHL. That's what gets you hired in the NHL. After that, it's put up or shut up.


Tortarella... I don't personally like the guy, but he won a cup. The Flyers look pretty complacent and lazy so far, which seems to be tolerated by the current coaching staff. Torts won't allow that for a second. So Martin St Louis doesn't like him? Boo hoo. St Louis has his name on the cup.

Players do stop listening to taskmaster coaches after a while, but it doesn't look like the Flyers players are listening to Stevens either. You can't fully blame Torts for Tamp's slide. Their management couldn't handle the salary cap and destroyed their depth by wasting too much money on 3 players.

Melrose isn't exactly setting the world on fire down there, by the way.

Tortarella, NO!

+1

Ok.... Why? That was the point of this entire thread, explain your reasons you would want Nolan over him.

I defended Stevens last year, but this is just more of the same. A string of wings, and string of losses, no consistency. Does anyone think that somehow this is going to change? He's into his third year as coach.

Ask yourself this question: Will the Flyers win a Stanley Cup with John Stevens at the helm?

My honest answer is "no."

So what's the point of waiting around to see if he can end yet another losing streak?

How about keep him as assistant coach who focuses on player development and speacial teams? Let someone with a track record light a fire under this overpaid, underachieving group.

Compare for yourselvess...

My problem with the screaming guys, the fire and brimstone coaches, is that their act wears thin after a while. There's only so much screaming and yelling you can do before it stops working. I'll always remember Ray Rhodes when he coached the Eagles. There's only so many weeks that screaming, "These guys are going to come in here and rape your women!" to try to get your team fired up before a game when you realize that you can't top yourself anymore.

And once the players stop listening, there's no where else to go.

I can see how that works in college, or juniors where the kids are probably terrified or aren't savvy enough to question anything, and you get a full roster turnover every year or two. But once you're dealing with adults--grown men, I don't see how it works for very long. Especially when you're dealing with guys who are getting paid that much money. It's not boot camp. It's not life or death. They'll just tune you out and wait for you to get fired when the team starts losing.

I think you get a better effect when you ration that stuff out carefully. When the players don't expect it from you.

I agree with you, but what we have now isn't working either.

It wasn't just St. Louis though. A large percentage of that team was tired of his act, including Prospal.

If Torarella can bring us a Cup, the players are perfectly welcome to hate him at their leisure.

Yeah, but that was during his 6th season there. Considering that's about the average turnover of a coach then I'd say that's not bad. Everyone is taking a "what have you done for me mentality" with Torts, but he made the playoffs in 4 of his 6 seasons including winning the Cup. I'd say that's a good track record. That fact that they got sick of him in his 6th season means very little to me considering its not uncommon for players to get sick of their coaches after they've been around for a while.

Tortorella not a good defensive coach and what we need is a better effort in our own zone. In Nolan's short time with the Islanders I think he had that team playing almost above their talent.

If your team is winning Torts is a good coach. If your team is losing he is just a pain in the ____ of his players.

I don't think the players got sick of him because of spending years with him I think they just sick of him because they were losing.

That's rumor and innuendo only. Why mention it if you have no idea whether or not it's true. Did the son ever confirm it? Rumors are often taken as truth and end up hurting many innocent people. Don't further them if they are unsubstantiated. That's as bad as starting them.

I don't know much about Nolan or Tortarella, but from what I do know on their track records, I think we would do better with Tortorella. Stevens is a coach who doesn't show much behind the bench, god knows what goes on in that locker room, but trying something new behind the bench can't hurt. As people keep saying, they don't want Tortorella, but is what we have really working for us now? The answer is no, not really. I still think you need to give Stevens at least 10-15 games to really establish this team and develop a winning streak, if he can't, you gotta start exploring your options. It'll be the 3rd year of incosistency, and after coaching the same core of players for this long, you should have developed a successful coaching at this point.

I would like to add that I do like Nolan he did seem to do very well with the Islanders considering they had no talent on that team. He would cause havac against the Flyers with Richard Park of all people. Jason Blake also did very well with him he was a 40 goals scorer. They did make the playoffs one year with him I think people forget that, that year they brought in Smyth.

Nolan is a good coach and if Stevens isn't coaching I would want Nolan.

Though I don't think Nolan has a perfect track record with his players. I think him and Janne Niinimaa had a profanity laced argument in front of some fans during a practice resulting in Janne walking out on the teams practice and he was traded not long after that I think. I forget what it was all about though and if that played in Janne being traded or if that was unrelated.

Torts just scares me when I think of how he will mix with our team. I think he would hurt our players more then help. Downie and Torts on the same bench also scares me. Just to much anger.

I'd never ever want Nolan...that wouldn't be better than Stevens. I'm totally against the idea of firing stevens, but if it's done someday, I'd want a real NHL coach. Maybe Savard or Tort. Savard has done good things with young players. If he's still avalaible, I wouldn't mind him.

If we wait, Melrose might become available...

I don't know what I want, other than the Flyers to start winning. It sounds lame but I just want the right decision to be made and there's no way I am personally capable of deciding whether Stevens should be fired or not. I can tell you that I don't think Tortorella is the answer. We're having defense and goaltending problems and I don't think he could solve either of those.

If I was to start a search for a new coach today, the first person that might pique my interest would be Marc Crawford. I'm not saying he should be our new coach, just that he's the first person I would look at.

Torts record isn't that great. He was 239-222 in six years with Tampa. He only won 17 more games than he lost. Nolan isn't to great either after checking him out. I want a third choice. There must be another coach that we have over looked.

This is a good one.

Anybody got some background on Crawford?

He likes to flip out at zebras.

Like I have said before, I would welcome Tortsy with open arms if he becomes the Flyers head coach. Another good coach replacement would be Paul MacLean the assistant coach of the Red Wings. He's been with Babcock for about 6 years, I think it's about time he steps up as a head coach. Especially with the wealth of experience he can bring to the club. Not only he's a stanley cup winner, but he's learned from Babcock how to deal with star players. But "if" Homer wanted a guy like him, we would have to wait for the off-season.

As for Nolan, he's always had problems with the management. As for saying Tortsy is not a good defensive coach, think twice. His GM gave him sh*t defencemans, the only best defenceman he had was D.Boyle. Shame on TBay on how they treated him. Vinny and St.Louis didn't like Tortsy? big deal...Tortorella wanted to get the best out of his players. But Vinny was busy enjoying the lifestyle, beach, girls out in Tbay instead of trying to work his arse off.

I already answered this in the Stevens thread, so I'll just quote myself:



And it wasn't just Lecavalier who couldn't stand Tortorella. St.Louis and Prospal turned against him as well.

So let's say we sign Tortorella. After a while he gets into a fight with our best player, Mike Richards. He disses him in the media and suspends him from the team. Richards refuses to play for him. Gagné decides not to take Tort's crap anymore and demands a trade elsewhere. Brière loses his interest and becomes an invisible bystander.

I'm not saying it will happen just because it happened in Tampa and I would understand it if there was a random player or two on his team who didn't like him, but come on. When all of his best players were in an open war against him, doesn't that ring any bells to you? Why do you think no one wanted to sign him in the offseason?

I don't want that cancer anywhere near this team.

Nolan - He did well at the Isles with what he had, but was never going to make them into a team to really push in the post season. Given the talent and time, would he do well? I don't know, it would be interesting, but at a risk.

Tortarella - No thanks. Sure, he's competitive and demanding of what he wants in his players which is what every organization wants and needs, but I think he comes at a high price. Lecavalier and a bunch of others disliked him, and that's what worries me. He falls out with people and that is definitely something you don't want in a franchise. We have a lot of young players and who's to say that it won't happen again?! BUT, he did win a cup with the Lightning and could he repeat that again?

Savard - Would be a good choice. I really admire what he's done with Chicago. Very shocked to hear that he was given the boot this early into the season. He was my choice for the Jack Adams, and my choice for the team to rise from the West into the Playoffs this season. Definitely an up and coming good 'young' coach.

But, saying that, I think it's way too early to be thinking about replacements for Stevens.

Ted Nolan is the only worthwhile coach available, Tortarella's yelling and screaming style would only make our players lay down. I wouldn't push the panic button just yet, Stevens will pan out.

I am sorrry i HATE marc crawford he is the biggest piece of SH*T coach the league ever had...

What did he do in Vancouver?...nothing
What did he do in LA?...Nothing
What did he do for Avalnache? Cup..sure...but how hard is it to pencil, Roy, Forsberg and Sakic
What did he do for Team Canada in the olympics?....oh yeah...thats right... HE SAT WAYNE "THE MOST GOALS, POINTS AND PLAYER TO EVER PLAY THE GAME OF HOCKEY" on the bench in the shootout

Marc Crawford is an IDIOT... i hate him more than ANY other coach in the league...the guy is a joke, he got lucky with an incredible team, ANYONE could have and SHOULD have won a cup with the teams he had in Coloraldo

I would honestly call for Homer's firing if he hired that idiot...ANYONE and i mean ANYONE who doesn't use the best player EVER in a shootout when you have the option is a moron and doesn't deserve to coach in the league

Now that im done with that...

I think Torts would be great...him...or i mean, if you can get him to come out (there are whispers he wants back in the league) Patty Burns is a phenominal coach and if he is healthy, he would be great, always loved Burns

Look, whoever posted positive for Crawford...dont take my feelings personally...honestly, I despise the man.... i will ALWAYS have the image of team Canada in that shootout, and the camera pans to Wayne, and he is nearly in tears.... he sees his team needs him, and he isn't out there...

Total joke... Crawford is a joke and no one gets me ****** off as much in hockey as Marc Crawford and Clauide Lemeiux

But yeah....Crawford is a piece of crap....seriously...he has done NOTHING... maybe im Canadian so we are coo-coo when it comes to hockey, but I am sure if you took a survey of 100 hockey fans and asked this question (at the time this happened of course)...

"If your life depended on any 1 player to score a goal in a shootout, who would be your first choice?"... i garuntee over 75% would say Wayne...but apperently mr dumb a$$ Crawford doesn't think so

For that...and that alone.... he is a tool and i pray he NEVER EVER coaches in the NHL again...yet alone the team i love and cherish in the flyers

If Burns is available, I would love to see him behind the Flyers bench.

Tell us how you really feel about Crawford without sugar coating it.

Keith Jones says he was the best coach he ever played for.

No problem. I don't take it personally. I just said he's the first person I'd look at. I have no personal attachment to him either way.

cool, its more of an attack on Crawford than anyone for him.... i mean, those are just my personal feelings...

I like Tortorella...people make a good point, the fire and brimstone does wear thin after awhile...but ****, im sure it would be good for 2-3 seasons and if in one of those brings a cup...its worth it...

Another one...this may draw some boos...

Pat Quinn

I think he is proving he can work with the kids doing the Canada Under 18...and its already known he IS a veteran guy, I think he is trying to show the game hasn't passed him and he can work with all ages...

I like Quin, I like Tortella...and my dream would be the one, the only Patty Burns

Worst nightmare... marc crawford...bob hartley and mike milbury

I like Bob Hartley. I think he would be a real asset behind the bench. But I agree I would rather have Ken Burns behind the bench before any of these other coaches.

I wouldn't mind looking at Quinn, Hartley, but I have to admit that I don't know a ton about Ken Burns. He coached the Devils a few years ago, right?

Its Pat Burns, he coached the Bruins, he won a cup with Montreal, he coached Toronto (when they weren't a joke), yes he coached Devils and not sure if he got a cup there (i think so), but he had to leave due to cancer or soemthing...but i guess he is better now...he also has one the Jack Adams trophy with 3 different teams...this guy knows the game...by far best coach out there...its all about his health tho, and whether he wants to come out and coach again, but he is bar none the best we would be able to get who is available


I don't like Hatley because, he seems to encourage dirty play, he doesn't come out and say it...but his teams have a bad rep for playing dirty, and i think that is the last thing we need here

The coach i really like is Craig Mactavish actually in Oil Country... I think he has a very good hockey sense, him and Barry Trotz, the preds have nothing and they are always competitive...but obviosly they are not going anywhere fast...

so once again...Torts...him or if they can get Pat Burns, than him

Ok, Pat Burns is much more familiar to me. The only Ken Burns I can think of is the guy who makes documentaries but I guess that was the joke and I missed it.

I don't think I'd mind Nolan either.

PhillyCanuck, I can picture your "I hate Marc Crawford" bedroom shrine. Huge poster of crawford with a knife in the forehead and "DIE" scrawled all over it in red paint. And lots of candles.

Here's my take: We haven't won a cup since 1975. One coach might be great with developing young talent, some other coach might be good with something else... I want the coach who wins championships. If players don't like being pushed to succeed, then get different players. My loyalty as a fan is to the crest and the orange and black, not Mike Richards, Lupul, Downie, or anyone else wearing the jersey.

Pat Burns is probably the most knowledgable and experienced coach out there at the moment. He did well at the Leafs before he left.

Well said. I agree 100%.

Why not bring in Paul MacLean as the head coach in the off-season.

This is the last person I'd like behind the flyers bench...Hartley is a piece of deleted...I hear him talk sometimes here on RDS and he seems to know nothing about hockey...Plus, if he comes here, Coburn will return in his shell and hide...Hartley is not good with young players.

Tortarella, Hartley, Crawford ??? You gotta be kidding me. Are we getting that desparate that we actually would want one of these guys. I don't detest Ted Nolan as much as those three but I wouldn't him here either. He's too anti-management and it wouldn't be good. Joel Quenville would have been my choice but he just took another booking. Too bad. Pat Burns would be nice but probably not going to happen. Pat Quinn, definitely not a good fit. How about Bill Barber...oops been there, done that. Starting to run out of coaches, I`m gonna have to think about this for awhile..........................

Here's a name for you: Bob Clarke.

You`re funny!

He only likes players who are 5 years past prime

Neither. I'd get Pat Quinn.