Since 80% of the GDT thread tonight was arguing over the goalies, let's let it all out here.

There's a poll for this here

That one's misleading

Oh yeah, it's got some tricky wording.

There's no "neither" option. Not voting.

that's for trading, this is saying both goalies stay, who starts over the other.

Biron should be the starter. No question about it. He is simply hands down a better goaltender than Niittymaki. That's not to say that Biron is perfect because he isn't and I'm not sure if he'll ever be able to be consistent, but if it comes down to he and Niitty there's no doubt about who's better. I don't know why Niitty gets such a pass here and Biron gets all the slack, but for me it's not about choosing sides or defending one over the other, it's just about who is better.

Either way, I don't think I'm capable of determining that based on three games. Niitty looked pretty good tonight and in relief for Biron. Biron has looked bad in his first two starts but that doesn't mean he'll continue to play at that low level. As someone else stated in another thread, I don't know that you want to start a goalie controversy right now.

Part of me thinks Niitty has earned the next start and I feel more comfortable with him being in net but part of me also thinks that Biron should play but be kept on a short leash.

Since both goalies are in contract years and the team is in need of a franchise goalie, I kind of see the best goalie of this season being the one who remains next year and the other goalie gets traded or walks in the offseason.

You make a good point, it is early in the season, Marty is in a slump it happens in every sport, look at howard.

Biron. It's too early to worry about him, though I wouldn't be entirely shocked if Nitty eventually beat him out.

The thing that has scared me about Niittymaki is his obvious lack of mechanics. He is very often caught out of position and sometimes loses his angles, which his agility can make up for sometimes but not all the time (for instance, Biron stops Dupuis' shot in overtime).

Although it is easy to tell that Biron does not have Niittymaki's quickness, mechanics are his strong suit. Mechanics will always outlast physical conditioning if put against each other for 82 games.

Therefore, Biron is the starting goaltender.

Nitty has looked pretty sharp so far. I think he feels healthy for the first time in a while. He seems to be seeing the puck really well. Nitty also can move from post to post quicker. Biron has looked nervous, panicked, and slow east to west. Maybe Biron will gain some of that confidence back, and for the team it is best if both goalies play like a number one. Because as long as they both play that way, we are winning. But for the long term I want Nitty. He is younger than Biron, and I think he will only get better as he matures. He is going to be going into his prime, while Biron will be at the end of his soon. It all depends on NItty's health though.

I don't think Biron would have stopped that shot in OT either. Right handed shot coming down the left side, shoots it in the top right corner of the net. That is a tough save. Biron's glove is just as week and it would have gone right over his shoulder because he is always quick to get down in the butterfly. Nitty had most of the net taken away, and Dupuis made a skilled shot. Biron let in a similar goal against the Habs if I am not mistaken on that turnover Richards had. I could be wrong though.

And if Biron was in net tonight, Richards stupid turnover that led to a breakaway that Nitty stopped, probably would have gone right through Biron's five hole. Biron is a mental midget on a breakaway. And look at the wrap around goal by the Rangers player on saturday. Biron over pursued a bad angle and left the whole net open, and couldn't recover because he is too slow. I think Nitty would have gotten over, because he probably would have been in a better position to begin with. Nitty had a bad hip for a while and is still faster east to west.

The one thing that is beginning to worry me that has nothing to do with the goalies is the amount of turnovers that Richards has committed. Especially on the PP. He needs to work on his balance and puck handling. Maybe if Stevens would stress the fundamentals. Oh thats right Stevens doesn't stress anything because he likes to be relaxed with his players.

But I think both goalies will end up being solid goalies this year. Biron is just having a fluky couple of games. They both have their flaws. But if they both can put up number one goalie numbers and we can win with both of them who cares who is in net.

Biron starts in Colorado, and (unless he gets blown out) starts in San Jose. He is our #1 guy. If we lose both those, then Niity starts at home vs the Sharks, and the battle for #1 begins then.

Again, Biron is #1, and will not lose it after 2 games into his season.

Biron has not lost the starting role yet but he is certainly in trouble if this keeps up. Niittymaki is 0-0-1 with a GAA of 1.67 and a save % of .927 while Biron is 0-2-0 with a GAA of 6.35 and a save % of .800.

Many people are very attached to Biron because of what he did last years playoffs but many forget Niittymaki is also a huge reason they made playoffs to begin with when he had that amazing safe against the Thrashers Kovalchuk which saved that game in a key part of the playoff push.

I think we will have a goalie contraversey all season. Niitty is healthy and clearly looks to be back in top form and Biron is a streaky goalie he will have very impressive streaks this season were he will look like the better goalie.

I didn't vote either one.

They're both in their contract years and they're equal in my eyes. Let them compete for the starting job. Give them both a 50% chance and let the best goalie earn the position.

Stevens has pretty much made up his mind on who is the starting goalie. It will take more of Niittymäki to steal the starting job from Marty than it will take of Marty to lose it, if you get the point. Marty will have to be weak for a longer period of time and Niitty will have to play better every time he gets the chance. I think the goalies are pretty equal, although I favor Niitty and would like to see him as the starting goalie to see what he can do, healthy and all.

Biron.

I like Nitty but Marty is the man ....

Goldberg

I said Biron. You can't just shake up a goalie's confidence just after 2 starts. He will get back into form...i just wished he had done so in the preseason.

I voted for Nitty.

Nitty has had a tough go of it with a bad knee. Even last season when he helped us into the playoffs, he didn't trust his knee. He kept is under his centermass and was fighting it the entire way. He couldn't play his game, and still he got the job done.

Look at him this year...

I was on my feet cheering when I saw him follow the play in the first few mins when he replaced Biron. I wasnt cheering so much what he did, I was cheering how he did it. Where were his feet? They sure as heck were not under his center mass... as he followed the play, his base was so wide i think he might have been able to touch both posts.

Guys, Nitty is back. He is healthy, and more importantly he knows he is healthy. He trusts his knee. He is playing agressive... where Biron is moping skating little circles, am I the only one who has seen Nitty handing out a few mini-hextall-esque whacks on the shins that get too close?

I am not saying that Nitty is the second coming of Hexy, but flyer's goalies have a history of coming off of rough injury spats to turn in a benchmark year. When I saw Nitty moving against uneven rushes, I saw him moving lightning fast with his knees off the ice... never commiting too early... in short I saw him doing what top notch butterfly goalies need to do, and I had that same feel I got when I saw Hexy skating full out after a puck or doing a full split after coming back from a groin injury.

In my opinion, it is Nitty's time... to come in cold in the home opener and shut down a surging team... He is ready. We know Biron... the coaches do as well. He is a mostly solid goalie. Let's find out if we have a possibly great one sitting on the bench waiting.

If we went to a shootout I want to put in Julie "The Cat". If she can stop Gunner she can stop Cindy and Malkin!
Marty will get his game together. Think of how he played in the playoffs. Nitty is good but I have not seen him play as well as he did in the Olympics yet. If he reaches that level he will be unstoppable

I hope you're right. It is Biron's job to lose, but i hope this makes him more competitive. My only fear is that I don't want him playing as if he is looking over his shoulder (but that's exactly what's going to happen if Nitty plays well). Like i said in another thread, some athletes excel under these conditions, some do not.

i voted marty, well knowing he was to get his deleted together to make it happen. what happeed to our goalie who was deadly in the playoffs. is it playoff hangover or what?
nitty played very well last night, but they did crank the post on him twice i think it was, im not trying to down play his play with the posts, i don thitnk he could have won in the shootout if we made it 11 more seconds.

oh man that made me laugh.


when it comes to our goalies, its hard to say which is better. i like them both.

Marty. he's the guy who got us through the playoffs last year and he's our number 1. he's only played 2 games.

This is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. Biron is the number 1 goalie of his hockey team. He stood on his head, withstanding the onslaught of Washington, Montreal, and Pittsburgh in the playoffs. Not exactly the 3 weakest offences in the league. Everytime they needed him , he rose to the occasion, while being abandoned by what was a pretty slow defensive unit. He was getting continuously outshot for a month and a half in the playoffs.
There was a little article in the 'journal de montreal' yesterday, a french newspaper, where he states, and I quote ''I feel like all the efforts I made last year earned me nothing. I must fight with all my might to make my name and keep my place on this team'. Marty Biron fought the war and came out of it battle-proven. He'd be my guy if I had to go back to war. The classiest thing of all...I never heard him complain about anything, or deleted about lack of support. Marty Biron is the reason the Flyers did what they did last year. Maybe if the 7 million dollar a year pretty faced wonder boy would get his thumb out of his *** come playoff time, it would be a little easier for everyone on this team. I guess in the mean time , Richards will try to hold down the fort while Marty fights for work and Danny boy racks in the millions. I'd take Biron on the Habs in a heartbeat. The kids got balls of steel. Curious to see how Nitty whatever his name is will react in the playoffs. Clarke is a smart man and we will never find out.

Last year, I was a big Biron fan and didn't have any faith in Nitty.
But after seeing Biron for a year+, we all know his strengths and weaknesses.
I really think Nitty may deserve a chance. even after Biron's playoff run.

Here are some bullet points on the two goalies, feel free to add your own thoughts.
As I'm sure folks with disagree with some of my assessment.

Biron is 31 years old. He is listed at 6'3".
He is in his peak years for a goalie.
Yes, goalies can be great until their mid 30s, so he isn't really that old yet.
But he isn't going to improve much either, if at all. So we know what we're going to get.
He has a tendancy to lose focus during the regular season, for not only a game, but a few weeks at time.
Marty has 'good' size and above average positioning skills.
His anticipation IMO is horrible. This re: two on ones, wrap arounds;) etc...
He seems to GIVE UP on plays. This is UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

Niittymaki may be older than you thought. He's 28.
He is listed as 6'1" which IMO is just average size.
Nitty's positioning could be better, maybe it'll improve with more game action.
So, he relies on his solid athletisism (not Biron's strongpoint).
His anticipation is great. He needs to do a better job, looking around a screen.
He has more of an up-side since he's a few years younger than Marty.

Overall, I wish we had a top tier goalie.
Yes, Biron looked incredible during the playoffs last year, for 95% of the time.
But we all know he isn't a top tier goalie.
Brodeur, Roy, guys like this don't fall of trees.
So we'll make do with what we have for now.
But it's time for the Flyer's scouts to find an all-star goalie.

Our fans deserve one.

Well Danny Boy got us past the Capitals and the Habs so I say he earned his money. This statements sounds like sour grapes to me. He was great in the playoffs.



Briere is contributing as well. Gagne has 3 goals and Richards has two and who is the guy setting them up? Briere. Need to get your facts straight.



Marty is the man in net, not Niitty. And what does Clarke have to do with this at all? He's not a part of the team anymore or not in any decision making.

marty is not 6 3
im 6 3 and when i met him i remember looking down to him a bit

Well as of right now... i would want Nitty in net because ever since he came back hes better
and i know this is gonna sound out in left field but why not bring up Aubin??? play him for a game or two??

but my main would be Marty. Just sit Marty till his game improves

to be honest... i wouldnt be surpise if we go 3-10 in our first 13

Danny Briere was great in the playoffs?...you are kidding me. He is obviously your favorite player. Oh and the sour grapes thing??..Others know me pretty well on this site, and know that I want nothing to do with a player that doesn't show up come game 83... I'm baffled dude. How could you say he showed up in the playoffs...OH I see..he had a lot of points..oh OK.....I was watching Danny Briere play minor hockey since he was like 14...never had guts never will so my facts are pretty straight. In Buffalo he had homefield throughout with the best offence in the world, and they didn't win squat. sorry I get confused..I meant Holmgren.

Looks pretty even to me with goalies, I think my vote actually put Niitty on top by one! I thought it was no question

I wrote that he's listed at 6-3, and nitty is listed at 6-1.

I really wish sports teams would list players actual heights.

They are both about 1 or 2" shy of their listed mark IMO.

i never understand why pro sports teams do this, many sports do it

Nitty was listed at 6-2 when he played in Finland.

You sound like a bitter Habs fan who is still mad Briere didn't come home Why would you follow a player with no guts from when he was 14 years old to his days as a 31 year old man?

Briere is the only reason the Flyers got out of the first round he came out flying in the start. In 7 games against the Capitals he had 6 goals and 5 assists for 11 points. Obviously he trailed off after that series and Umberger took over in destroying the Habs. How can you say the man who carried his team over the Caps didn't show up in the playoffs? You must be blind or you were watching the wrong game. Briere was also just as good in the playoffs when he was on Buffalo... But you don't count his Buffalo games because they had home ince advantage and the best offense? I guess Briere being there top scorer had nothing to do with them being the best offense

EDIT: I would also like to add Briere has 0 goals and 3 assists this season with a +/- of 0. Gagne has 3 goals 0 assists and is a plus 0. Richards has 2 goals and 1 assist and is a -1. It sounds like you just dislike Briere because the stats show flaws in your reason for disliking him.

this thread doesn't regard the cookie monster.

Exactly! I vote Biron he contributed big time in last years playoffs. I still think hes a bit better then Nitty

Here we go with stats ...who do you expect to convince with you 3 game stats of this year. So the 11 points in the Capital series is suppose to sell me on his worth in the playoffs?.Standards are a little higher in other hockey towns. Cups are not won with players who''Obviously trail off''. In Buffalo he led a team of great players who also made him great. And as far as me following his career, I coached minor league hockey for 11 years and when you here about a youngster filling the net, word gets around. The next thing to look at is how a scorers game tapers off as physical play increases and 5on 5 play....since you're so good with the stats , I'm sure you could tell me how many points he had in the Caps series minus powerplay points...its a little easier and courage tends to grow when the opponent can't take a chance and slam your helmet against the glass..Here is one for you in advance...there are 60 percent less powerplay occasions as of the second period on in playoff games compared to the regular season, and 20-25 percent less as the bracket gets smaller and there are less teams.....I guess that explains the ''obiously he trailed off'' part.

Anyway , this is a goaltenders thread....Playoffs , we will see then. In the mean time we play 82 games to finish between 1-4 to start with home ice....to me that is all these 82 games are worth.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted Philly to do well after they beat Montreal. I was just upset that as they went on Briere kept disappearing.

I'll trade him to the Habs.

I gave you this seasons stats to show you Briere is doing as well as his linemates. You made a sarcastic comment about Richards doing the work while Briere counts his money, how you worded it would lead me to believe you meant this season and if you didn't and you meant careers well then Briere has had a much more impressive career then Richards at this point anyway.

Briere's 11 points against the Capitals was a big deal because without him the Flyers never get passed the Capitals. You cannot expect a single player to carry his team all the way. Mike Richards playoff numbers were worse then Briere's. If I am not mistake Briere led the Flyers in points that whole playoffs. Without Briere, Umberger never looks as good as he did because he did nothing against the Capitals.

Briere had 4 PP goals and 2 PP assists against the Capitals I didn't realize scoring on the PP is seen as a negative thing. You are just looking for pathetic excuses to say Briere is a bad player.

Briere was good in Buffalo because he was surrounded by great players... What great players? Chris Drury? Who didn't even play on the same line as him every night? If Briere was surrounded by such great players why did Buffalo decline so much when he and Drury left?

Briere isn't good because he scores on the powerplay.... Last time I checked scoring goals no matter if it is a PP goal, even strength, or a SH goal it all counts for 1.

Briere has no guts... Now that one is the most laughable. You said you followed him since he was 14 years old, you make it sound like you scouted him but you said you were just a minor league coach who heard things. What is it? Did you actually watch him play or are you going by gossip?

I would also like you to explain how Briere the man you claim has no guts can overcome all the hurdles to get where he is now? He is severely undersized and many people passed on him because of that. His NHL career started slow he was even placed on waivers and no one claimed him. But did he give up or did he work hard and make himself into an NHL all star? On top of that he was MVP of that all star game. You said you followed him before his NHL career well I can look at his stats and I see some darn impressive numbers.

Sidney Crosby played in the same junior league as Briere. Lets look at Crosby's best season in that league. In 62 games Sidney had 66 goals and 102 assists for 168 points. Now lets look at Briere's best season there, well in 67 games Danny had 67 goals and 96 assists for 163 points. Wow Briere was not that far behind Sid's numbers in that league was he?

Did you call Crosby gutless when you saw how close there numbers were?

I can respect someone who doesn't like Briere but don't come up with such a pathetic excuse for not liking him. Be a man and say it, you don't like Briere because he didn't come home. I find it funny how everyone who likes the Habs wanted Briere to sign with them but suddenly act like they always hated the guy as soon as they heard he signed with Philly.

Niitty gets my vote, Biron gets too tired too easy ( he's already worn out from the pre-season )

Marty gets my vote for now. But if he has a another mediocre game vs Colorado, I say give Nitty the ball to run with.

Unfortunately right now I don't think there is an easy answer to this question. Marty is one of the best goal tenders in the NHL "WHEN HE IS IN THE ZONE AND HOT" his performance in the playoffs last year was EPIC. But OMG that was shure some lackluster play early this season... WTF? Perhaps there is something on Marty's mind right now that is distracting him? I think there might be more to this than we know. Right Now Nitty is the Go-To guy and I think we should all say a prayer for Marty

geez, put Sbisa in......he's the only defensive-minded player I feel comfortable with

I'm tired of the hot and cold aspect of our goaltenders......but right, now, Nitty would get my vote

Heck I'd give him to the habs.

Or trade for Tanguay or Plekanic